On September 28, Conflux and Odaily held an offline event "When Thinker Meets Artist", hoping to connect the artist market with the mainstream market through this event, and jointly explore the combination of art and innovation.
We are honored to invite encryption artist Misaki-S26, ODin NFT founder Pan Bo, Encryption Pavilion CMO Elle, Incuba Alpha founder Melody, Republic.co investment director Runchen, Conflux Li Ruihan (host) to participate in "Exploring the New Boundary of NFT" themed round table discussion.
Among them, Misaki-S26 believes that NFT is just a new marketing channel for most artists at this stage. In the future, with the increase of NFT types and functions, NFT works of the same quality as physical art works will have more aesthetic appreciation value, and the market will also demand higher quality works.
In addition, Misaki-S26 said that he is optimistic about the application of NFT in the field of games, because games, as the ninth art, have a strong bearing capacity, and games can be understood as the initial form of the metaverse.
Pan Bo believes that NFT bundled physical sales can be regarded as a global trend, and Christie’s has bundled physical objects in many recent auctions. NFT can drive physical sales, and at the same time can effectively help in genuine attributes and traceability. In order to help artists, there are actually many ways to combine NFT and real objects.
When explaining the reason for the "high price of encrypted art", Melody said that the elites of every era or the innovative leading people of every era are looking for the art that best matches their cultural genes and ideology in this era products to represent their group. But from a technical point of view, we are not ready to store massive amounts of data. Aesthetically speaking, the technology isn't ready either. Buying NFT at this stage is more about buying scarcity.
Elle said when talking about "multi-chain upload of the same work", NFT is essentially a certificate of ownership, and we cannot deny the creator's choice. This kind of decision-making power has nothing to do with technology, but involves the essence of human society. Regarding the original on-chain art, technology alone cannot create extremely fine-grained works. The technology itself limits the creator's thinking and defines the boundaries.
Regarding the optimistic future direction, Elle thinks that Loot is more attractive, but there are language barriers, and the performance of complete DAO governance is not so good, but in the future, it will still pay attention to more native projects on the chain.
When explaining the reason for the "high price of encrypted art", Melody said that the elites of every era or the innovative leading people of every era are looking for the art that best matches their cultural genes and ideology in this era products to represent their group. But from a technical point of view, we are not ready to store massive amounts of data. Aesthetically speaking, the technology isn't ready either. Buying NFT at this stage is more about buying scarcity.
In the short term, you can pay more attention to further breakthroughs in the direction of the game.
Runchen believes that buying NFT artworks well simulates the offline shopping experience. In the future, many purchases can be satisfied (online).
At the same time, NFT does not necessarily only correspond to artworks. Although there are no industrial products in the metaverse, it does not mean that there are no mass-produced things. NFT can be combined into mass-produced things, just like daily necessities.
The following is the content of the round table, edited and organized by Odaily, enjoy~
Conflux Li Ruihan (host): Let’s move on to the roundtable session. The theme of our roundtable today is: Exploring the new boundaries of NFT. I am very happy to invite guests from different fields. Please make a brief self-introduction.
Pan Bo (ODin NFT):I am the founder of ODin NFT. We are one of the more successful ones following the compliance route. Currently, we are mainly cooperating with museums, which is our main direction.
Misaki-S26 (Crypto Artist):I'm Misaki-S26, and I'm working on a brand-new sparkling stone for human beings, a series of innocence, and baked pixels, and I've collaborated with 20201 many times.
Elle (Encryption Pavilion):Hello everyone, I am Elle, the CMO of Encryption Pavilion, and I have participated in the post-investment services of many projects in the circle.
Runchen（Republic.co）：Hello everyone, I am the investment director of Republic.co. Just now, the guest introduced that someone sold a land for 900,000 US dollars, which is us.
Melody（Incuba Alpha）：I am the founder of Incuba Alpha. We mainly invest in primary market projects, mainly in Japan and other Asian regions.
Pan Bo:
Pan Bo:First of all, I think Beeple is more representative. In fact, the audience of digital art is not as large as that of traditional art, and it is still relatively small. Bundling physical objects is a global trend. Christie’s has bundled physical objects in many recent auctions. NFT can drive physical sales, and at the same time can effectively help in genuine attributes and traceability.
If you want to help artists, there are actually more ways to play: buy real objects and get NFT, buy NFT and get real objects, some don’t actually need NFT. For example, make some elements of Du Hufu into digital works and then make them into NFTs, then collect digital souvenirs and get physical souvenirs at the same time.
Misaki-S26：Now NFT is mostly just a new marketing channel for artists. NFT is still in its infancy, and it is relatively mixed. This is the difference between current digital art and physical art works. Let’s not delve into its artistic appreciability. In terms of experience, many NFTs are not good enough or comfortable enough.
Someone said before that "everything can be NFT", which is actually a good thing for encrypted art. With the increase of NFT types and functions, NFT works of the same quality as physical art works will have more aesthetic appreciation value. The market will demand higher quality of works. Both encrypted art and traditional art have their own points of value expression. When it comes to value, a good work will not reduce or restrict its value space because of the increase in channels or forms. In my understanding, NFT will increase the value of works of art.
Elle：I think the high-price auction has attracted the attention of traffic outside the circle. For NFT+art or art+traditional channels, NFT has opened up more space for the art market.
The blockchain technology that NFT relies on has natural rights and the superiority of the underlying logic of value preservation in the application scenarios of artworks. We will obviously see the reduction of sales channel costs and anti-counterfeiting costs of NFT artworks, which will make it easier It is its contribution to the art industry, so there is no such thing as the premise of bundled sales of artworks, the sales channels or sales scope have been diluted, but it has increased such technical means and improved liquidity.
Runchen：We don't invest much in artworks, but you can imagine this scenario: I used to be an artist, and I wanted to hold an art exhibition, which cost a lot, and then the cost for people to attend the art exhibition was also very high. But if I hold a painting exhibition in the virtual world, you see it, you buy it, and you receive the same painting at home the next day, which actually simulates the offline shopping experience very well.
This is the main reason for our heavy investment, because we believe that many purchases can be satisfied in the future, and what we want to do is actually infrastructure.
Melody：My point of view is not very consistent with everyone. First of all, I think that offline physical art works and digital art are inherently contradictory, and there should be no bundled sales.
We must first make it clear that NFT is not exactly equal to digital art. Digital art has been around since the 1960s and 1970s. If you look at the history of art, you will find abstract art, then post-modern art, and now the rise of installation art, public art, and interactive art. These have existed for a long time. A lot of art is easy to change hands, and the rights and interests of the earliest purchasers are not guaranteed. NFT technology uses blockchain technology to solidify the transferability in digital art. Digital art and digital artists are not necessarily in the encryption circle. It just means that with a carrier like NFT, the works can be well protected and the source can be traced better.
I think the strange form of existence is that it is already a painting of Qi Baishi. Someone uploaded the picture as an NFT and said it was his digital art. Otherwise, it is (should) be a purely digital artwork, and its form of existence is NFT. Under this IP, derivative products are issued. This derivative product may be prints or dolls, etc., which is OK. In fact, digital art was encrypted from the very beginning. Art generated by programs in encryption, such as Loot, which was popular before, does not have a picture version and exists in a certain place. All information is on the chain, so it will not be obliterated. won't go away. Whether it's me personally, as a fund, or a relatively large art collection fund in the world, it will not store physical art on the chain.
Why is the price of encrypted art soaring? This is because the elites of each era, or the leading group of innovative spirits of each era, are looking for artworks that best match their cultural genes and ideology in this era to represent their group. Maybe the more elite successful people born in the 80s, 90s, and 00s will pursue new things as their identity coordinates, so NFT may be his primary collection direction. So a lot of wealth comes naturally, this kind of intergenerational wealth, everyone sees this trend in encryption-related artworks, this trend is unstoppable. In the 1980s and 1990s, the Japanese frantically bought oil paintings, bought abstract things in the 1990s, and now people buy encryption-related artworks. In another ten years, this trend may become more profound, and the art of the future may be made by AI.
Li Ruihan: Every guest has a different point of view. Some focus on collections, and some focus on functionality. There is no right or wrong, and everyone can discuss it. In fact, Melody has already answered the second question just now. Can the uniqueness of uploading physical art as NFT be guaranteed?
Melody：Some collectors will achieve their goal as long as they are the first to buy (a certain work). For example, some unpublished paintings of Van Gogh were taken away by some rich people. Whoever buys it, the rich man can't achieve the psychological function of showing off, but he has achieved a function: that is, he likes and owns this work. It doesn't matter what platform such a good work is produced on. As long as the collector is willing to pay, the first stage is over.
The second stage is to discuss how strong the public nature of art is. For example, a certain artwork is hung in a museum, and then there are many derivative works. If it can guarantee IP tax revenue through the chain, as for whether it is cross-chain, whether it is multi-version, or whether it is an entity, whether it is on-chain or offline Derivatives, or secondary sales of entities, that is another matter, because it has entered the level of public communication.
Li Ruihan: What if the same work is released on Ethereum or other side chains at the same time?
Melody：I think this still respects the creator and the earliest contract. If the creator himself violates the agreement and publishes his work elsewhere, it will be his own destruction. The buyers banded together to subdue him.
Li Ruihan: Let me add a question, the native art on the chain is actually more suitable for NFT than other forms?
Melody：We are only discussing part of it. Another part is called aesthetic value. When we discussed NFT, we ignored a question. How much information can current digital technology store? Like every stroke of a painting. In fact, our technology is not ready to save massive amounts of data. Aesthetically speaking, the technology is not ready yet.
Bringing off-chain artwork to the chain may lose key information, so it is better to keep the off-chain artwork off-chain. There is no need for too much proof on the chain, it just means that when buying it, the history, techniques, or the mentality of the creator of the painting are preserved.
Elle：Let me answer the situation of multi-chain upload of the same work. First of all, we need to clarify the concept that NFT is actually a certificate of ownership. When a work is born, before it is uploaded, the ownership belongs to the creator himself. How the creator chooses, such as whether to upload in multiple links, he naturally has such decision-making power, which we have no way to deny. This right has nothing to do with technology, but concerns the essence of human society.
Regarding the original on-chain art, we have no way to create works with extremely fine granularity, and human high-precision machines cannot reproduce the scenery and the feeling of the universe, time, and space. Relying on technology, particles can never achieve such a precision. Personally, I think that the original situation itself is the application or it is based on this. Its own technology limits its thinking, and it will be very clear where the boundary is. Because when I create, I will create within this framework. Although it sounds very sad, maybe this is the limitation of the objective to the subjective will.
Runchen：Is the on-chain native art mentioned by the host more suitable for NFT performance than other works? In terms of the current digital art creation methods, most digital artists now use non-blockchain technology to create works, and at the same time they will find that the methods are very limited. Correspondingly, there are no corresponding hardware measures to replace these off-chain tools on the chain. It may be that the restriction has opened up the barriers between the two, and I also want to leave a question mark on this point.
Melody：I would prefer to look at it from a scarcity perspective. I think NFT cannot be equated with art. NFT is a digital asset. Buying it buys scarcity.
Overseas family trusts have begun to receive a large number of digital assets, or digital artworks. The reason is also that they believe that this is a brand-new incremental market, which may be a new space and concept for the future, and a way to increase GDP significantly in the future. Because our entities will be limited by physical space, but virtual space will not be affected by these. Now our core pursuit is uniqueness, which cannot be tampered with.
Elle：When new users enter the field, they hope to have an immersive environment, but I don't think it exists. When you make a purchasing decision, we assume that you are a competent person and make a decision based on consensus.
As a participant, I am not obliged to consider how other people create the external environment for me. If someone buys poor things as treasures, it doesn't matter, what he buys is happiness. There is no right or wrong in subjective behavior, and the benefits obtained are also personal choices.
Pan Bo:
Pan Bo:Our team has thought about this in depth, and we think it may be application-oriented, and the application scenarios converge into the Metaverse. And NFT may be one of the basic systems at the core of the Metaverse. Our team talked about how to make this matter more compliant in China. The more important point is that there are specific application scenarios. For example, in the past, when playing World of Warcraft, you can use RMB to trade game gold coins and equipment, etc., which has specific scenarios.
The giants are all laying out the metaverse, and they should have done a lot of compliance research. Why do they do this? The specific scene of the metaverse exists, whether it is based on AR or VR, I think that NFT will have a larger imagination space at that time, and it will have a huge impact on the entire virtual industry.
Misaki-S26：One direction that I am more optimistic about and more interested in is the application of NFT in the field of games. As the ninth art, games have a strong bearing capacity. For example, dynamic things, audio, and interactive virtual forms can be well reflected in games in the future. When the game simulates the future scene, it will be very interesting to package the currency, items, and characters in it and appear as NFT. I will understand the game as the initial form of the metaverse. Elle: I thought Loot was quite attractive before, but it may have language barriers for the general public, and the complete DAO governance may not perform so well. In the future, we will still look at projects that are more native to the chain.
Runchen：I think among all the topics discussed today, NFT does not necessarily only correspond to artworks. There are no industrial products in the Metaverse world, but that doesn't mean there are no mass-produced things. NFT is not uncombinable either. My personal opinion is that NFT can be combined into mass-produced things, just like all physical goods now, there is a limit. I think this is the way NFT enters thousands of households: the price is not so high, and it has a certain price, similar to daily necessities. In addition, because there is no industry in the Metaverse, a large amount of labor will be released.
Melody：In the short term, you can pay attention to major game companies at home and abroad; the latest incubator projects are all blockchain-related, domestic Tencent, NetEase, Ali, and overseas strategic investment departments are all concerned about these parts. If the game and metaverse want to develop, there is still more room for growth in playability.
The combination with finance should also have a good trend. Among them, NFT is just a carrier.
In addition to games, CV, which is more artistically displayed, and some non-game related somatosensory things, may need to be merged and developed with VR and AR-related technologies. But these directions are too long-term. In the short term, it is mainly to see further breakthroughs in the game, not horizontal breakthroughs.
Li Ruihan:Thank you for your wonderful sharing.
