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At the roundtable themed "Waves are coming and going, how investment institutions can explore new tracks", we are honored to inviteArkstream Capital partner Warren Fang (host), Multicoin Capital partner Mable Jiang, FTX COO Constance Kang, NGC Ventures founding partner Zhu Weiyu, IOSG founder Jocy and several guests shared their industry perspectives from the perspective of professional investors insight.

When Mable talked about "the future development of DeFi", he believed that the core of the development of DeFi is to make capital more efficient. DeFi will continue to move upwards from the direction of various transactions and lending. The purpose of some micro-innovations, It is all to allow the mobility of a single unit to release the maximum energy.

When Constance talked about "the next thousand-fold growth opportunity", he said that we should focus on small-cap projects and out-of-market projects. In addition, Constance believes that there is no necessary relationship between the primary market and the secondary market. We usually do not make predictions, but only judge what products users want to trade in the current market environment, or which projects we may be interested in. Then We will vote for such projects.

When Zhu Weiyu talked about the "public chain dispute", the current situation is not the same as the ecology in 2017. Now many public chains do have their own good technical propositions, including performance, scalability, In terms of privacy, there are some differences from Ethereum, but as a public chain, the most important thing is the ecological operation capability.

When talking about "the future development of DeFi", Jocy said that he is optimistic about the derivatives market, decentralized transactions, multi-chain networks, synthetic assets, fixed-rate products and other directions. Jocy believes that the DeFi world flows like water, from the earliest lending transactions, stable coins, to the entire derivatives, synthetic assets, and underlying assets, and the emergence of flash loans has created more imagination. DeFi can also flow from bottom to top. The first world central bank created stablecoins and created different assets on asset platforms. This is also a flowing trend from Ethereum to asset management tools in user wallets.

The following is the essence of the roundtable content, edited and organized by Odaily:

Warren Fang (round table host): Hello everyone, welcome to the third round table discussion of the ArkStream Capital brand launch conference. The theme of this roundtable discussion is "Tides come and go, how investment institutions can explore new tracks". I'm today's host, Warren, a partner of ArkStream Capital, please introduce yourself first.

Mable Jiang：Hello everyone, thank you for the invitation of ArkStream Capital. My name is Mable. Our company is a crypto asset management company engaged in both primary and secondary markets.

Constance Kang：Hello everyone, I am Constance from FTX. We are currently mainly looking at the ecology, and we have invested in and watched many projects.

Zhu Weiyu:Hello everyone, I am Zhu Weiyu. NGC was established at the end of 2017. It was called Neo Global Capital at the time, and it is now called NGC Ventures. We mainly invest in the primary market.

Jocy：Hello everyone, I am Jocy, from IOSG. We are planning DeFi, NFT, DAO and other directions. Thank you for the invitation from the organizer.

Warren Fang (host of the round table): First question, let’s discuss the core driving force of this round of bull market. I would like to ask the bosses, what do you think is the core driving force of this round of bull market? Head institutions are looking for new assets, or Internet unicorns such as Musk and Jack Dorsey are beginning to accept cryptocurrencies, or is it the Fomo behavior and Meme culture of retail investors? If the bull market will continue, from the perspective of the external environment, what are the next growth points?

Mable Jiang：In fact, releasing water must be a big environment. In December last year, we can see that the data of many on-chain protocols has begun to rise. Not only Uniswap users, but also Lend (Aave), Kyber, etc. at that time, have newcomers using it. There is a more core point. In the second half of 2019 and the first half of 2020, many Web3.0 products are maturing. The biggest feature of this round of bull market is that the market will give a very high premium to product tokens with good user experience, which is a very core point. Because you have a product, you can attract C-end users, and the money from C-end users can come in, which will naturally have a relatively large boost to the market.

Regarding the continuous external growth point of the bull market, we may talk about the sector rotation later. But in reality, taking a step back, it is stacked, and it is a trajectory of continuous development from the bottom to the top. If the previous round paid more attention to the prototype of the underlying public chain and middleware, this round of the underlying public chain structure is relatively less competitive, but middleware is on the rise, including the mutual interaction between the above protocols, which will enable more of ordinary people are involved in the use industry, which is a core reason.

Constance Kang：I personally think that there are probably three main reasons for this bull market.

First, European and American institutional funds have entered the market. You can see various reports for a considerable period of time, saying which institutions in Europe and the United States have taken how many bitcoins. The stimulus to the bitcoin bull market is still more obvious. In addition, not only these currency circle institutions, but also non-currency circle institutions are actually hoarding coins quietly, and the inflow of funds has played a certain role in promoting the bull market.

Second, it is equivalent to the effect of a virtuous circle. Some people bought it first, pushed the price up, and everyone started chasing the rise. This process took a long time in this round of bull market, not as short as it was in 2017, so it can also be It can be seen that in this round of bull market in the industry, in addition to the obsession with prices, the development of projects is far better than the phenomenon of "air coins flying all over the sky" in 2017. Compared with the previous round of bull market, this round of bull market has greatly improved the quality of employees and projects.

Third, the entire legal currency environment is depreciating, giving Bitcoin a certain upside. I think this is the core factor of this round of bull market.

Zhu Weiyu:Just now the two spoke very deeply and comprehensively, so I would like to add one or two points.

First of all, I just talked about the unprecedented monetary release and easing. This must be a very important external environment. Another point is related to this. The epidemic has caused the fundamentals of the traditional capital market to deteriorate extremely. Compared with digital currencies, the fundamentals of traditional stocks looked very bad before this year. This deterioration of fundamentals has caused many funds to be unable to do anything It chooses stocks as its safe asset allocation direction, especially after the second half of last year, it can be clearly seen that the valuation of stocks is very expensive, but the fundamentals have not improved. At this time, many people have no choice but to allocate Some assets that are not affected by fundamentals, but will be affected by currency release.

Beyond that, there is a political context to discuss. Over the past decade or so, there has been an obvious trend. The rise of conservatism and populism around the world has a strong rebellious mentality towards the liberal ruling ideology that dominates the discourse. The traditional West, represented by Wall Street, will value things like traditional stocks, but Musk and others are more like retail heroes. If you want to say no to your dominant voice, you just want to do something that (traditional institutions) don’t like. , something very peculiar. Therefore, Dogecoin is not a great joke. Many people think that the Trump administration is a bigger joke. This global psychology leads more people to choose an atypical asset, especially as you have seen more recently. Some of the coins of the joke, I think it has a great political background.

In the long run, if governments can effectively solve their problems, people may have more confidence in the real world, and may have more confidence in the traditional stock market and bond market. But the current situation is that the division of people around the world is unprecedented, and there is no way for people with different political backgrounds to understand each other. The government of the Western political system cannot be a unified government, it must be divided, and it is a government that cannot talk to each other. , it is difficult to solve the problem. Since the problems in the traditional world cannot be solved, the assets in the virtual world seem more reliable. So I think that if the current division of the global public continues, we can safely hold digital assets as a bearish view of the Western political system.

Jocy：I think we can look from the outside to the inside, and we can see the trend from the overall external environment to the subtle changes in the internal industry. This kind of bull market seems nonsensical, but there is logic to follow when observing the internal changes in the industry. The new crown epidemic has led to global quantitative easing, and global institutions are looking for some undervalued assets. Even before the epidemic, many traditional institutions and Internet companies have begun to do research and exploration since 2019, but they are moving slowly. , The wave of people from Wall Street also entered the market, which led to a very high demand for assets in the external environment, including Tesla and others also entered this market, which in disguise attracted a larger market of retail investors to pay attention to this market. Zhu Weiyu also said just now that many projects have no technology, but they keep rising, because this is a struggle between retail investors and professional institutions. The bubble of the entire asset leads to the evaluation of any asset without any asset logic. Like Dogecoin, all boats can go up when the tide rises. We see an internal logic, including changes in the entire DeFi world since last year. There are more available things and products, more interesting applications, and even changes from Ethereum to the new multi-chain form. In my opinion, the external environment stimulates internal changes, and internal innovation supports the driving force of the bull market in this industry.

Warren Fang (round table host): Just now, all the bosses talked about the internal driving force. In fact, the development of DeFi is accompanied by the entire bull market cycle. The AMM battle between Uniswap and SushiSwap, the decentralized lending represented by AAVE and Compound, Compound and Liquidity mining led by YFI, as well as decentralized derivatives, decentralized insurance, algorithmic stablecoins, etc., whose users are growing rapidly, how do you think DeFi will develop in the future? What other modules should be carried on the upper layer of this Lego building block?

Jocy：The original power of DeFi is very strong. When the market was very bearish last year and 2019, developers developed products in a bearish market cycle. The threshold for developing products is very low. One or two people who understand some codes can make DeFi protocols, AC Made a lot of different products. So regardless of whether the market is bullish or bearish, DeFi is moving forward, but the number of people following it is very different. In the cycle of the past one or two years, including some companies we invested in, they have a lot of chasers, but they are still doing innovation and bottom-level reconstruction. Many people are not limited to transactions, from transactions to loans, from loans to wallets , to explore in different directions.

We believe more that the DeFi world flows like water, from the earliest lending transactions, stable coins, to the entire derivatives, synthetic assets, underlying assets, and in the process of flowing from left to right, the emergence of flash loans Created more imagination.

DeFi can also go from bottom to top. The first world central bank created stablecoins and created different assets on asset platforms. This is also a flowing trend from Ethereum to asset management tools in user wallets.

We have seen that the innovation of DeFi has been very fast in the past year, from Ethereum to multi-chain, to Binance Smart Chain and other different chains. The innovation of DeFi is a bit like the innovation experienced by the traditional world in the past 30 to 50 years, and this kind of The threshold for innovation is lower, no license is required, and many innovative protocols have emerged. There are centuries-old theories on the evolution and development of traditional finance. With the rich and rapid formation of infrastructure, in the DeFi world, we also recognize that there is a certain Matthew effect, and the strong will always be strong. In the entire DeFi market, in the process from niche to mass, who can make more usable and user-friendly products has also become very important. In the exploration of new directions, we also talked about algorithmic stable coins, how DeFi can be combined with NFT, derivatives markets, decentralized transactions, and multi-chain networks. We are focusing on these directions.

The synthetic asset track we started to pay attention to last year saw a five-fold increase in user size and a very rapid increase in transaction volume. In fact, DeFi protocols tend to be combined, and DeFi users are also partial to combination effects. We are very optimistic about the synthetic asset track. There are also fixed-rate products, as well as the integration of DeFi and CeFi, substituting the liquidity of traditional CeFi, including insurance, and now there are some aggregators.

Mable Jiang：In general, the core of the development line is to make capital efficiency more efficient. The simplest example, you may have seen that Dharma was doing P2P at the beginning, but later everyone realized that Money Market is the right direction. Many people will question the order book. When performance permits, order books can be used, and they will definitely try to go in this direction. In addition, the PMM that was common last year is that the oracle machine introduces external prices and concentrates on market making in this range. In the beginning, there was only one collateral like Synthetix, and now different synthetic assets will introduce more different collaterals, which is another way to improve liquidity and capital efficiency. Overall, the overall efficiency is to use the liquidity of each block more efficiently and do more things, following this general context.

Second, there are more granular combination modules. Afterwards, there will be exchange of fixed interest rate adjustment agreements to obtain liquidity, and we can see that more liquidity has been cut. The core of this is the issue of unlocking capital efficiency. So in general, it will continue to move upwards based on various transactions and lending directions. The purpose of some micro-innovations is to release the greatest energy from the liquidity of a single unit. This is my opinion.

Zhu Weiyu:At present, many DeFi products do not consider the experience for users, and there are still many refined needs that have not been met. These two directions can continue to develop. In addition, in addition to combining with CeFi in the currency circle, DeFi can also be combined with the assets and needs of the real society under the chain and outside the chain. I think these directions are quite good.

For example, in terms of user experience, it is actually very inconvenient for everyone to trade derivatives on the chain now. Some platforms can realize derivatives transactions on chains with sufficient performance, but for Ethereum, it actually lacks such performance. But we have also seen that some platforms have begun to innovate, allowing everyone to hold derivative products on Ethereum and chains they are familiar with. This kind of packaged derivatives allows users to go long or short other assets on Ethereum very simply, which is a very good innovation. In addition to user experience, there are still many user needs that have not been met, such as whether it is possible to borrow or save money with a fixed term. At present, it does not support deposits and loans with a fixed term. Including several projects we have seen recently, they are all beginning to be processed this problem.

The last is the combination with physical assets, because not all users have the assets on the chain now, only people in the blockchain circle have them. If we want to make the DeFi circle bigger, it is best to introduce off-chain assets into the chain in a credible way, so that everyone can do asset mortgage and transaction settlement more conveniently. This is a direction worth exploring . Jocy also mentioned just now that there are many different chains, bridges between multiple chains, multi-chain hubs, or a multi-chain middle layer in the future, which can connect different chains, reduce asset investment, and improve efficiency. Both are very beneficial products.

Constance Kang：I agree with what I just said, the needs of DeFi users still need to be improved. Let's take DEX as an example. Many user experiences and UIs are very poor. In comparison, centralized exchanges have been polished for four or five years, and they are very good in terms of user experience and smoothness of use. If you want to increase the usage rate of DeFi, become a part of usage, and further expand the number of users, you must work hard on user experience. If the user experience is not good, people may always be limited to the currency circle. At the beginning of the year, there were 1.2 million active addresses in DeFi, and now there are almost 1.6 million. Compared with the population ratio, this is a very small number , It is also very small in the currency circle, and we have to eliminate duplicate addresses, so I think user experience is a part of DeFi that needs to be improved next.

In addition, I personally like to try to explore application scenarios other than DeFi loan insurance. For example, can we use the concept of decentralization to move social media to the decentralized chain, which is equivalent to every Facebook and Twitter post you send? On the chain, I think this will be a very interesting direction. Coupled with the composability of DeFi, combining social media, insurance, payment, and lending together, I think it should be a very interesting direction.

Warren Fang (round table host): So far, Ethereum is still the most prosperous developer ecosystem. Many DeFi innovative products are built on Ethereum, and other public chain tokens will also release ERC20 versions first. In 2017, EVM has even become the standard configuration of new public chains. Looking back at the public chain disputes over the past few years, is there a conclusion now? Next, if there is a new public chain, or a new blockchain network, that can revolutionize Ethereum, who do you think is the most likely?

Zhu Weiyu:Our current situation is not the same as the ecology in 2017. Now there are many public chains that do have their own good technical propositions, including performance, scalability, and privacy. There are some differences from Ethereum, but as a public chain, the most important thing is the ecological operation capability, which is the most important thing. In fact, BSC can get the real support of many users, not just arbitrage demand.

BSC provides enough support in terms of developer ecology and user support, and the ability to use the ecology can make public chains that are not particularly innovative in technology come out. In addition to BSC, there is also Polkadot. It not only has many new features in technology that attract so many developers, but everyone in China feels that there have been many developer-related support activities in China since 2018, attracting enough of developers contribute to the ecology. In my opinion, the subsequent public chain war is far from over. Who can come out in the end, on the one hand, depends on whether the foundation can support so many ecology for a long time, and on the other hand, depends on whether you have a long-term and effective ecology The mode of operation and the intensity of support are very important.

On the one hand, the public chain must develop its own technical standards, software and hardware, and on the other hand, it must catch developers to contribute to your ecology and develop applications. And let users know about your product, be willing to come over, and use it on your platform. These three aspects are relatively similar.

After so many years of fighting in the game industry until now, the ones who come out in the end must not be particularly advanced in technology, nor are they particularly backward in technology. In addition, platforms that do a good job in ecological operations can continue to survive and grow. I believe the same is true in the field of public chains. On the one hand, technology cannot be left behind, but technology is really not of absolute significance. As a public chain For operators, the attraction of developers and users is very important.

Constance Kang：We chose this ecology based on our recognition of Solana. There is also a background reason. Last June, we launched a decentralized exchange, which has now become the flagship ecosystem on Solana. Why did we choose Solana when we developed it? Because Solana's throughput, speed, and transaction costs are excellent.

First of all, the throughput is very high, currently hundreds of thousands per second, and the goal is to have no upper limit, so in the past one or two years, the TPS can reach nearly one million, which is a very large throughput. The transaction cost is 1/50,000 of that of Ethereum. Now everyone is complaining that the gas fee of Ethereum is too expensive, which can be completely solved on Solana. But it is a new public chain, and the number of ecology and the entire project on it is relatively small. There needs to be a development contribution in the early stage, so we have been diverting projects for Solana, hoping that more people will migrate to Solana. Even if Ethereum currently has various Layer 2 solutions, the performance cannot be achieved. If we move 10% of the world’s population to the chain, Ethereum cannot meet this demand, but Solana can, and it is a layer with excellent performance on Layer 1. Based on this perspective, we chose Solana, hoping to build this chain through our efforts.

Mable Jiang：Let me add a little bit, I think everyone has done a lot of research on multi-chain. On the one hand, there are indeed many new public chains. These public chains will go online in one to two years. As long as there is a developer ecosystem and someone builds on it, this problem is not particularly big.

Another point is that the vast majority of ordinary developers are still lazy, so they are willing to use what they are used to before. For a long time, this pattern will be carried out in a combined way. With the improvement of cross-chain technology solutions, I think this is normal, but it is hard to say who will be challenged today, and I rarely look at it this way, because I think this industry is sometimes watching as we go. In the period of one to two years, there are many cases where they are used in conjunction with each other.

Jocy：Everyone shared it very well, I will throw out a hypothesis. If I am a new developer entering the industry, what kind of Layer 1 public chain will I choose for development? I will think about which platform is the most popular at present, which platform has the highest subsidy, which platform has the best development language, do I understand EVM, and how high is the chance of becoming the best project? I think every new developer will keep asking this question and discussing it with industry practitioners. They will have the answer in their hearts and use this answer to form platform development.

Whether it is 2017 or this year, there are new stories in every time period, including the exchange public chain, including the public chain that is 1000-10000 times faster than Ethereum, and each story can be bought by different people and development. But we need to think, what kind of public chains and platforms can remain after this wave? I still believe that multi-chain must be the future. Just like the Internet world, in the end, the two operating systems locked 90% of the market. In the long run, most of the chains will become the side chains of Ethereum. Everyone needs to make different choices, just like NEAR, which built Ethereum The Rainbow Bridge has a very good relationship with Ethereum, and they basically support and develop each other. Now different parachains are building EVM financial protocols to attract new projects from the DeFi world. These two worlds are interconnected, and they can also mine on each other’s platforms. There are different options. Now our ecology is still very small. After the traditional world enters and the larger market enters, we may see different governments and different Internet giants promoting platforms and public chains. There will be new stories, and people will always be caught by different opinions. Feelings and stories convince. But any platform is open source, which means that it can be copied. After that, can it have a certain influence to attract opinion leaders? Just like a religion, everyone is very obsessed with religion and is willing to contribute 5-10% to this religion. time of year. Therefore, the competition of the public chain is not necessarily a competition at the technical level, but more about reconvincing each other at the levels of ecology, developers, and users.

Warren Fang (host of the round table): Last question, let’s talk about track investment. We know that one of the characteristics of a bull market is the continuous switching of various hot tracks in the market. Today is the public chain, tomorrow is DeFi, and the day after tomorrow is platform currency. Different sectors are switching in rotation. Which tracks did the bosses invest in in 2020? With the ferment of the bull market, is there any change in this strategy in 2021? For example, will the feedback from the secondary market in turn guide us to have a certain impact on track investment and sector investment in the primary market? Recently, we have also seen the listing of Coinbase, and some early investors have obtained thousands of times the return, and the bosses have more or less invested in some projects with hundreds or thousands of times. In your opinion, if there are products with a thousand-fold increase in the future, which track is most likely to be born?

Mable Jiang：The primary market and the secondary market do influence each other, but in many cases the primary market is the leading factor in the secondary market. You see a certain track in the primary market with a particularly large number of entrepreneurs and entrepreneurs. The secondary market can be judged with a high probability, and it won't take long for it to heat up. This is the reason why we insist on the same group of people managing private equity funds and secondary funds, and there is relatively strong feedback between them. In fact, investment in the primary market is not about chasing hot spots. What we are used to is to have a big context from the beginning, which is equivalent to the analysis of the entire technology stack and the development law of things, from the bottom stack to the middleware I mentioned earlier, and then As far as the above application and front-end, we will focus more on the underlying infrastructure in the last cycle, but with the improvement of the underlying layer, we will find that there are many new ideas that no one would have thought of before, but because everyone knows that this technology does this , so many new ideas will be made on it. Based on these middleware, the innovations among them will interact with each other to form individual innovations. From our point of view, the core is to understand where the entire market and the entire cycle are now. I am not referring to the bull-bear cycle, but the stack of technological development. Where is the stack? When a project like The Graph first came out, many people were not sure how to use it, because there was no Uniswap at that time. But the general direction is data indexing. There are so many data on the chain, and someone needs to index and mobilize them. It must be applied in the future. This is a first-principle judgment, which helps you find key contradictions and find the next one thousand times ( The core point of investment) is to see what you must have. If you don’t have it, you won’t be able to take the next step. This is very important.

Zhu Weiyu:The hot spots in the primary market are earlier than those in the secondary market, so we will not look at how to invest in the future based on the popularity of the secondary market. For example, the hot Token this year, many projects existed in 2018 and 2019. There will not be any particularly solid projects to vote for, like Layer2, which is currently on fire. But now there are not enough targets in the second level to form a plate effect, and we basically invested in these in 2018 and 2019. If you look for hot spots this year, there is a high probability that you will not find them, so you have to sort out the path of technological development.

Just now Mable said it very well. When investing, you will see what is still missing in this ecology and what is the next path. If there is a team in the secondary market that has already made this thing, then you can directly use the secondary market. If there is no secondary market, then find the first level. If there is no primary level, then find someone to do this. This method is very Applicable, I believe many investors do the same.

As for the income of this track, it does not mean that any track can have thousands of times the income, but that the top companies in each track may be able to achieve very high returns. Especially those with ecological operation capabilities, this can obtain higher returns, just like everyone in the traditional Internet circle will say that platform companies, such as Ali, Tencent, and Meituan, such platform companies can obtain higher valuations, The reason for achieving higher profits is because its ecology can attract enough applications to take root in it, attract enough users to explore what they want in it, and capture enough value. Therefore, if you still want to find assets with a return of thousands of times, you must examine whether this matter can be made into an ecology and whether it can be made into an ecology. This is more important than finding a track.

At present, one of the things we are doing is the interaction of multi-chain networks, which are expected to run out in the future. There are many chains that can attract enough users and developers. In the long run, it must be a state of multi-chain coexistence. You cannot let Users learn how to use each different chain and learn how to switch the network of chains. The natural idea is that there should be something that allows everyone to intuitively know how to operate and convert assets between different chains very conveniently. It's a very important track.

I feel like there's something a little bit more distant, but it's still really important. One is a green and low-carbon blockchain. Now everyone uses Ethereum, which consumes a lot of thermal power, so we should consider this matter. If quantum computers become more mature in the future, quantum algorithms should be considered, or how to easily replace the encryption module of the blockchain. There is also a closer one, privacy is also a point of concern for everyone, because the current blockchain is pseudo-anonymous, as long as you know my address, you can know all my information. If there is a better technology to ensure privacy in the future, there should be a lot of market demand, and there will be a thousand times more projects/equity/tokens, but it is not yet known which ones will come out.

Constance Kang：The next thousand-fold growth opportunity can provide you with an idea. Looking at the next three to five years, if there are any coins with a thousand-fold growth, if the current market value exceeds one billion US dollars, it will be difficult to grow to a thousand times. You can see which ones you are interested in from the projects with a small market value.

Another direction of thinking, which is also what we have been paying attention to from last year to now, is that non-currency projects issue coins through the chain, and integrate this coin into the original business model. These projects do not rely on issuing coins to make money. They already have A mature offline profit model, and it is making a profit, which is equivalent to the "chain reform" we mentioned a few years ago. But it’s not a complete change. It’s just a part of the chain-up action, put some of the chain-up functions into the off-chain business model, and use the concept of the chain to solve some problems that are difficult to solve off-chain.

For example, last year we invested in a relatively large project Maps.me, which itself is a popular offline map in Europe and the United States. It wants to put the usage scenarios of DeFi in the offline map. Why is this an interesting direction for us? When we travel, especially offline maps, most users only use offline maps when they go abroad or in remote mountains where there is no signal. When you go abroad, you will naturally have the need to exchange currency. Either you brought a bunch of cash with you, or you went straight to the ATM to get it. The idea it wants to achieve is to put the swap function on the DeFi chain into the app, and exchange fiat currency and stable currency for fiat currency, such as USD stable currency and British pound stable currency, on the chain, but users can only experience USD at the front end Exchange pounds. What they want to do in the future is to put the concepts of lending, insurance, and financial management in DeFi on the map. If you want to travel, you need to prepare a sum of money for travel, then you can put this money in the software, within ten days of travel, you put this money here, there will be annualized income, of course, this is relatively long-term Action, but first of all, put a digital currency wallet into it, and everyone deposits money in it through a relatively simple way of fiat currency, and then we will convert fiat currency to stable currency, and stable currency to stable currency conversion. This is what we discovered last year. in one direction.

I have also answered in the answer to the previous question, we have always been very interested in out-of-circle and cross-circle matters. If you really want to expand the currency circle, you must attract non-currency users to become currency circle users. Only when the number of users expands can more users participate in this matter and it can develop into a nationwide behavior. We invested in some non-currency projects last year, and we will also pay great attention to non-currency projects in the future, and hope that when they think that one day we want to go on the chain, FTX or Solana ecology will be their first choice. This is our idea .

Warren Fang (host of the round table): I would like to add that you have rich experience in the secondary market. Just now the two previous guests also talked about it. The secondary market is relatively lagging, while the primary market needs What do you think about refining and predicting what is needed in this market?

Constance Kang：In fact, it is difficult to have a so-called prediction. We have talked about this matter internally. It is difficult to know when this thing will become popular. A year ago, in March and April last year, no one would have thought of a DeFi explosion. At that time, we launched the DeFi Composite Index, which included some coins that we thought would be in demand, but no one cared about them, and everyone didn’t pay attention at all. Suddenly, after June, the annualized income of Compound exploded, and everyone suddenly began to pay attention to DeFi. We looked at this matter with an attitude of "after the fact", as if we had predicted this matter in advance, but in the market environment at that time, everyone did not have this demand, so even if we launched this thing at that time, no one would play it. On the contrary, later on, the DeFi project attracted everyone’s attention, and everyone knew that FTX has an index, so personally, I don’t think there is any necessary relationship between the primary market and the secondary market. We usually don’t make predictions, but just judge In the current market environment, what kind of products do users want to trade, or which projects we may be interested in, then we will invest in such projects. If it becomes a hot spot in the market, we may feel that maybe we made the right decision.

Jocy：I think what Constance said is very good. The strategy of users in the circle and users outside the circle is very good. In fact, we have not divided it like this, but it can be roughly said. If it is aimed at users outside the circle, it must be a more friendly experience, more friendly, easier, and simpler way to interact, just like some asset management tools we invested in, social documentary agreements, social agreement tokens, etc. There are many traditional world Celebrities will issue a social token on this platform, and many people will buy it; like NFT, I think it is the direction of outside the circle and entering the circle; including the protocol for casting NFT, such as the DAO infrastructure we invested in, can be used For governance, we still continue our previous investment ideas; including DeFi, we have always been optimistic about how it can do better, and we will innovate in this direction. We also believe that AMM will have the possibility of breaking out in derivatives.

I think that on the platform of core assets, you can now also buy stocks such as Google and Facebook in the United States, and now you can predict the price of Gas in the next month or two in different communities. We are looking at the Layer 2 track now. We think that Layer 2 will pay more and more attention to privacy, and the privacy aspect will become more and more strengthened. There is also the multi-chain ecological investment that we recognize. We have also invested in some DeFi protocols, so it is difficult for us to determine the final return of many investments. Everyone thinks that any investment in a bull market can make money. Many times we need to look further at investment longer. Many times when we do this, it is a negative thing in China. If we use it as a cash machine (to do it), it will make the industry more negative. So we hope that the projects we invest in can really change the industry in the next two to three years, make real products, and gain real users. Even if he does not capture asset appreciation in this bull market in the next one or two years, he will be able to get very good feedback and evaluation from the traditional market in the next two to three years, and with user support and data support, he will promote it to a wider range of mass users Market, this kind of investment is what we have always wanted to find and pursue.

So I think it is the same in any industry. In the long run, value is a point. For funds, it must also be aimed at financial returns. There is an opportunity to combine these two things.

Warren Fang (round table moderator):More often, investment institutions participate in the development of the industry as builders, rather than as profit-seekers or speculators. Just a few people discussed the development of the blockchain industry. To sum up, when we participate in investment, whether we focus on some current problems that need to be solved, such as blockchain congestion, Layer 2 solutions, DeFi protocol upgrades, DeFi composability, or our imagination of the development of multi-chain networks in the future, circle The entry of foreign assets, including the arrival of the entire blockchain world Web3.0 era, can choose many ways to participate. Today we discussed the development of the entire blockchain industry, and we also gave you some insights from the perspective of investment institutions. Suggestion, thank you very much for your sharing today, and we hope to have more exchanges with you in the future. This concludes today's roundtable discussion, thank you.