Craig Steven Wright (hereinafter referred to as: CSW), the community leader of BSV, the currency that was born in the computing power war last year. He calls himself the creator of Bitcoin - "Satoshi Nakamoto". In the eyes of supporters, he is knowledgeable, far-sighted, and has a deep understanding of Bitcoin. He is Satoshi Nakamoto; while in the eyes of opponents, he is a lunatic with ulterior motives and unclear motives.

On the eve of the computing power war, he had an exclusive interview with Odaily. Odaily interviewed him again when the Coingeek Community Conference (actually BSV’s community conference) was held in Seoul, South Korea.

Listening to CSW's explanation, you will have a better understanding of what he envisioned as BSV or Bitcoin: legal, real-name, unlimited block size, and no need for everyone to be a node. These are different from the vision of many public chains, which brought him controversy and many "die-hard fans".

In this interview, he once again emphasized that Bitcoin is against anonymity, that Bitcoin must operate within a legal framework, and that law is part of the Bitcoin protection mechanism. "Code is not law." He also responded positively to everyone's negative comments and controversies: Those who say that about me are often "big slobs", but the world is so difficult, if you want to compete with me, you'd better work hard point.

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1. Bitcoin is not anonymous, code is not law

Odaily: How did you meet Calvin (founder of Coingeek)?

CSW: In the 1990s, I founded Lasseter's Online, an online gambling site in Australia, and then I worked with Playboy and some sports people, and I also helped Playboy run the betting business. Calvin Ayre launched the online gambling site Bodog in 2000, and I did a lot of work for him. I mostly do things like website code reviews, so I can often find bugs in people's code now.

Odaily: What do you think is the difference between Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies?

CSW: My invention is not designed to be anonymous, knowing that the only money that survives is money that is valid within the legal system. But the current cypherpunks are so stupid, all they are doing is destroying governments and banks, which is not the original intention of Bitcoin. Bitcoin is against anonymity.

Those idiots regard anonymity as a "selling point". The most important point of Bitcoin is that it cannot be tampered with. People say no one can take my bitcoins. This idea is completely wrong. If you commit a crime, the stolen money does not belong to you.

Governments and the legal sector are aware of this, some laws are in place, and European Monetary Enforcement is aware of these issues, but some people don't seem to get it. The idea that bitcoin transactions can be traced is nothing new, and if you want to use bitcoin to get away with crime, the idea is pretty daft.

Code is not law. I can change the code running on your laptop. If I have a court order, I can modify the source code and ask you to run it. If you don't want to, then you can only go to jail.

If China and the United States cooperate to fight against transnational drug lords, and require the modification of the Bitcoin code to recover the stolen money, this is completely achievable. (10,000 words are omitted here about the cooperation of three national governments to change the Bitcoin code and other examples...) The law is actually part of the protection network of Bitcoin. This is not cryptography, but an economic security mechanism.

Odaily: In the Bitcoin community, many people resist KYC.

CSW: They are criminals and this only facilitates money laundering. Others who use Mixer are money launderers, drug dealers, arms dealers, they are not freedom fighters or idealists, they are criminals and murderers. They don't want Bitcoin to be regulated.

In 2008, before I released Bitcoin, I had an argument with James Donald. I have suggested that Bitcoin will eventually run in data centers, but he believes that everyone runs a node, otherwise the bad guy government will come and wipe it. They don't want Bitcoin, they want ZCash, but it's illegal.

Odaily: You mean that when you first proposed Bitcoin, there were differences between the person who used it and the inventor?

CSW: Yes.

Odaily: You no longer support BTC, why don’t you sell all your BTC for BSV like other BSVers?

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2. Don’t ask me about Facebook, it’s polite to say they’re not as good as orangutans

Odaily: You put a lot of emphasis on compliance. Today, big companies like sovereign states and Facebook are starting to consider issuing digital currencies...

CSW: They don't have a cryptocurrency, they don't even have a blockchain, they just made an announcement, and it's probably the third attempt to launch something similar (implying that Facebook's previous attempts in payments have failed).

Facebook is an absolute idiot, stop asking me about Facebook. If you really want to ask, let's say that a chimpanzee with Down syndrome who drinks six liters of alcohol and then gets hit on the head with a hammer is better than Facebook.

I'm being polite to Facebook when I say that. I wrote it very clearly in Chapter 5 of the white paper. Nodes generate blocks. If you don’t create blocks at all, then you are not a node. I told people what a node is.

Facebook is not a node, does not generate blocks, they have no idea what a blockchain is.

Odaily: Stablecoins are not Bitcoin.

CSW: Stablecoins are a token on top of bitcoin, but they don't seem to have anything to do with decentralization, bitcoin has competitive mining, it's a distributed database, that's what makes bitcoin weird Powerful, Bitcoin wasn't really designed for everyone to run nodes or anything.

Let me explain to you, if 5 billion people use Bitcoin, it is estimated that it may take 5000 years to dig out a block. Around 2010, I was thinking that Bitcoin might eventually become professionalized, it might be run by data centers, or it might be run by large corporations, and that’s the way it’s designed, there’s no other way to make Bitcoin more useful.

Odaily: What do you think of proof of stake?

CSW: That's the dumbest thing ever. Bitcoin is true peer-to-peer, do you know what true peer-to-peer is?

Peer, I am a peer, and you are also a peer. I don't mean node-to-node, but peer-to-peer.

I also considered IP-to-IP when I first wrote the first version of Bitcoin, I can send it to you directly, I don’t have to send it to the miners first, and then wait for their reply. This is not what Bitcoin was designed to do, otherwise it would be a centralized system. The most powerful thing about Bitcoin is that I can send it directly to you—my peer. If I want to buy something from you, I will directly make a transaction with you. I will send you a transaction, and you will send it to the miners for verification.

Odaily: Oh, peer-to-peer is to send messages directly to the other party, and then the nodes verify these messages.

CSW: Exactly. Those people are trying to fool everyone, but that's not the case.

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3. It is not necessary for everyone to run a node. The BSV node will be a large organization in the future

Odaily: There is a view that too large a block will increase the access threshold and slow down the propagation speed (BSV hopes not to set a default block limit).

CSW: Do you mean centralized web vs. decentralized web? I've heard this theory all my life, but it's not bitcoin, bitcoin is a distributed network, it doesn't have all users running nodes, and you can't do that if everyone validates transaction, then the network simply cannot stand it. Bitcoin wasn't designed that way either, and I've been working on these issues for so many years.

I think they might be promoting to you a socialist idea that everything needs to be divided equally. But the reality is not like this. Do you want to run your own mining server? Do you want to run your own web server? Do you want to run your own DNS? If you send an email, you need to run an email server yourself, is it realistic?

In addition, the block will not affect the speed, you will not download the complete block, you only need to verify the block header, which is why we designed SPV.

Odaily: If a company runs a Bitcoin node, what type of company is it?

CSW: Banks, governments, or companies like Amazon that have massive processing power, they process it very quickly. Don't trust miners, they lied to you, they make you think they are important, but they are not.

Odaily: If banks, governments and large corporations handle transactions, will they choose to prioritize certain transactions?

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4. Those who attack me, it is better to work harder

Odaily: There are many BSVers who firmly believe that you are Satoshi Nakamoto, and some people think that you are not Satoshi Nakamoto. Do you think it is important for BSVer supporters whether you are Satoshi Nakamoto?

CSW: I'm Satoshi Nakamoto, but that shouldn't be the point. What really matters is the technology itself. It works because of me. If I'm really stupid, then you look at other chains such as Ethereum. My designs work, theirs don't; they're not even better than mine. No one else in the industry can scale.

Odaily: Are you worried that your personal controversy will affect the development of BSV?

CSW: No. Because we care about apps and you're talking about fake news. I daresay it will end next year. A lot of people will go to jail next year. I also believe that those big drug lords who use Bitcoin to hide themselves, even if they use a large number of addresses to spread the stolen money, these can actually be traced, the government has found them, and next year will be when they fall into the law. At this point, the drug dealers shouldn't blame me, but the people who told them the "sin coin" would work.

Odaily: If you look back at the computing power war, you and BCH...

CSW: What? Who are you talking about?

Odaily：BCH。

CSW: Who are they?

Odaily: Both sides of the computing power war, who do you think loses and who wins?

CSW: They're already zombies, they just don't know it. At least I'm alive, they're dead.

Odaily: Some people think, Dr. Craig, you speak too radically and arrogantly. What do you think of these comments?

CSW: Let's just say they were unlucky. I was told that a lot when I was in the US because many of them were lazy bastards.

Odaily: Big slob?

CSW: Right, when I was teaching. I only have students from India, China, Pakistan, and Malaysia, and there are only three white students in my class. People like us are few and far between (snowflakes) in the West because people don't want to work. My class work is very heavy, they just think about graduating. This is the Western world today.

So, yes, they say that because it's simpler. They just want to say that the big bad guy should study hard, and the big bad guy shouldn't get so many degrees.

Well, but I'll let them finally understand that the world is so hard, if you want to compete with me, you better work hard.

Odaily: So, you will continue to be yourself.

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5. I hope BSV is used for payment, not for speculation

Odaily: Many coins want to be listed on exchanges today, what do you think about this?

CSW: I think if they're not a real exchange, if they're not compliant, then they're criminals.

Financial investments are regulated. If you take other people's money but don't do what you promised, then you have to pay it back according to the law. Those who engage in ICOs take the money and don't do what they promised. This is fraud.

It's a completely different thing, we want to use, I want people to earn and use bitcoin and discover what it is; not to get rich on exchanges.

Odaily: You don't want to fuel speculation.

CSW: Yes. I want people in business to use Bitcoin, I want innovators to use Bitcoin, and I want real businesses and people who are actually developing products to use Bitcoin. I hope that people can have their own information autonomy and ensure the security of their own information, such as medical records, identity information, etc., instead of being controlled by big banks.

Odaily: What do you think when BSV is delisted?

CSW: Binance (which delisted BSV at the time) is just a criminal group and they are laundering money.

Odaily: What do you think of the large fluctuations in the price of BSV?

CSW: Just let it be, when it is used, it will be stable. When there are more and more users, the proportion of speculators will decrease, and the price will naturally become stable. Today's price volatility is too high because there are too many speculators. Therefore, you need to allow everyone to use it.

Odaily: Why do you choose to use BSV?

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6. I have heard of Web3, but they didn't do it, I did it

Odaily: Compared with the systems of existing big companies, such as Tencent, Facebook, Amazon and other big companies?

CSW: Why would anyone want to buy Facebook coins? It has no speculative value or use value. Instead, you have to give your own KYC information to Zuckerberg and sell it to others.

What we are doing is foundational work worldwide, and I can make Visa 100 times cheaper than it is now. I can make bank transfers faster. I can make small and micro payments on the Internet possible. I can make you pay such a small amount as a tenth of a penny on the site.And it's a legitimate, honest network.

Odaily: What can you use this network for, cross-border payment?

CSW: Well, that's one. It can also do EDI (Electronic Data Interchange, electronic data exchange), which is a trillion-level market, and I only need to do it with one-tenth of the current cost. I could save companies like Walmart $6 billion a year. I can save the US government $8 billion.

Odaily: Have you heard of Web 3.0? Everyone you imagine has their own information autonomy and value Internet, which is a bit similar to this concept.

CSW: I've heard that, but a lot of them are only looking at the "ad-based" Internet; and the difference is that they didn't make it, I did.

Odaily: Under such a global network, can a country still control network information or trade flow? Does it make some governments worry about information sovereignty?

CSW: Actually yes, the structure of Bitcoin is to do two hashes, someone can do the first layer of hash, and let this layer of hash be verified in a certain country. For the national government, they can use this to prohibit certain transactions from taking place in the country. Even sovereign countries can use BSV to issue faster, scalable global currencies, but at the same time control the scope of their circulation. Not everyone can see everything.

Odaily: Who controls the network? Can anyone change its code?

CSW: Any code can be changed, I can change the code of a machine without recompiling, if you look at my past, you will find that I have taught reverse engineering, I will crack certain virus software, and then make anti-virus software Companies can analyze them. However, property is protected, and even a country's government cannot take it away casually, no matter where it is, it is a crime. That's why I mentioned it 15 times in the white paper, honestly.